I'm currently refereeing three different campaigns at the moment: House of Worms, using Empire of the Petal Throne; Barrett's Raiders, using the Free League edition of Twilight: 2000; and Dolmenwood, using the rules of the same name. Of the three, only two – EPT and Dolmenwood – can be called "old school" in the usual sense of the term, though T2K has a lot in common with many old school games, specifically its focus on hexcrawling and resource management. That said, I wouldn't really call Twilight: 2000 "old school" without some big caveats. That's no knock against it, since my players and I have been enjoying ourselves with it for more than three years now, but I think it's important to note these things, particularly in light of the topic of this post.
Empire of the Petal Throne is a very early RPG. Released in 1975, it's a close cousin to OD&D in terms of rules, meaning that it's not very mechanically complex. Dolmenwood is a little bit heftier, being largely derived from Moldvay/Cook Dungeons & Dragons (1981), itself a clarification and expansion of OD&D. Twilight: 2000 (2021) uses a variation of Free League's "Year Zero" rules, versions of which can be found in most of the company's games, like Forbidden Lands or Vaesen. The T2K variant is a bit more complex than the others, owing to its inclusion of modern firearms and vehicles.
In each campaign, I rarely use the game's rules as written. I don't mean that I've introduced lots of house rules (though I have in a few cases). I mean that I often ignore the rules. When playing, I often don't want to slow down the flow of the session by having to refer to a rulebook or a chart. Instead, I prefer to rely on my memory and that of the players, which means that we're more likely to strictly apply those that we remember than those we don't. I call these kinds of rules "sticky" rules, because they stick in your memory.
One of the reasons I prefer old school RPGs like D&D is that I find their rules much stickier than those of newer games. To some extent, that's simply a function of familiarity. I've been playing D&D and Traveller for more than four decades; I know them almost like the back of my hand. I lack this familiarity with games I learned more recently. On the other hand, there's no question that most older roleplaying games are much more mechanically simple than those that came later. Again, this is a generalization and there are plenty of counterexamples. My point is that, as both a referee and a player, I'm much more comfortable with fewer and simpler rules, since I'm much more likely to remember and, therefore, use them.
But, as I already noted, even in games like EPT or Dolmenwood, I regularly handwave or outright ignore rules in the heat of play. For example, Empire of the Petal Throne includes spell failure rules. Depending on a character's level, psychic ability, and the type of spell, there's a chance a spell might not function. At mid to higher levels, this chance is minute, but there's still a chance of failure. Despite this, I don't always make the players roll, since there are many occasions when I feel it unnecessary or disruptive to the flow of the action. I defer to my own judgment here rather than the rules and the players have never complained. Were they to do so, I wouldn't hesitate to use the rules as written, but I like to think that, after a decade of play, we've built up enough trust that that no players worries much about how I'd adjudicate in-game situations.
I think about this question a lot, because many aspects of the new Twilight: 2000 rules, chiefly the combat system, are more complex than I like. There's nothing wrong with them and, by many measures, they're much simpler than the original GDW T2K combat rules. However, I'm not fond of them and I frequently dispense with many persnickety aspects of them in the interests of speed and simplicity. Again, the players rare complain about this and accept my judgments. Had I the ability to start this campaign over again, I might have opted for simpler, more straightforward rules, but, after more than three years, it's too late for that, so we muddle through.
That's more or less where I am with rules these days: when give the option, I prefer simple, even simplistic, rules over more elaborate and complex ones. I'm not opposed to trying to model complicated situations and activities mechanically and, under the right circumstances, could even find that enjoyable. However, as a referee running a weekly game over the course of many years, I have come to find that rules I can't keep in my head without recourse to a book or a chart or a table don't hold a lot of appeal for me anymore. Consequently, my latest drafts of the rules for Secrets of sha-Arthan are decidedly much simpler than earlier ones. It's yet another way that my experiences as a referee have colored my own design work – and for the better, I hope.
I have a rules-related question about your Barrett Raiders campaign. I saw an unboxing video of the boxed set and noticed that it includes tactical maps and counters, much like those found in traditional hex-and-counter wargames. As a wargamer, I was delighted by this, but I was wondering to what extent their use might slow things down at the table (they might be easier to deploy on Roll20).
ReplyDeleteI know my players would be intimidated by a situation where raw tactical considerations could overshadow the more narrative flow of a firefight. Personally, though, I’d love to use them for clarity—something often lacking in modern-arms combat during tabletop RPG sessions. However, I also wonder whether their small size would make them difficult to see and use effectively at a large table with four or five players.
In the game I've been running for my family, they recently had an ecounter with a pair of simple, low-level monsters. The first one they dispatched quickly, and then that bane of low-level play set in: an extended series of rounds in which nobody can make a hit roll. All 3s and 5s is funny for the first round, but gets dreary fast, and after a few rounds of it, the wife declared "yeah, but I'm so annoyed that I hit it anyhow." I told her "you know what? We're gonna go with that. Roll for damage." They laughed, but I told them I was completely serious. And the game finally proceeded. :-)
ReplyDeleteThe first rule of design is "you know when you're finished when there's nothing left to take away." Perhaps it should be an RPG design rule as well.
ReplyDeleteI'm in the same boat. I just want to play, and bogging the game down with a rules that aren't adding to our enjoyment just isn't worth the mental energy.
ReplyDeleteRules heavy systems are better as they apply thier existing comprehensive rules to tons of situations affording the dm a guide to adjudicate.
ReplyDeleteIt's the dms job to trim the rules to what works at thier table.
Designers should be thorough and give dm the meat the cut and chew.
So, with your analogy, it’s better to use a game loaded with unnecessary rules you have to waste time looking over, only to change it the way you had planned on doing so all along. Thanks, but no thanks...
DeleteDesigners should do whatever makes them feel special. It's a _right_.
DeleteDMs and other consumers should avoid hustlers who want them to pay for shovelware slop and get praised for it.
So they should have nothing and you just make shit up. Solid gane design. Here is a game for you just make everything up...brilliant.
DeleteCorrect, my unnumbered brother! We just make everything up.
DeleteSpergy loners who want to write up masses of rules as a form of self-soothing or stimming or whatever can likewise do so, but let's not pretend we owe them a living for it.
The problem with a rules heavy ststem, to which you remove rules you find cumbersome is two-fold: for one, your tinkering with a complicated system may have initially unforeseen consequences that harm play.
DeleteFor two, if the rules you remove consequently harm a player, that player may cry foul.
In the end, you try to include teams of rules. Which, if that’s your thing, cool. I find a rules light system freeing. It’s far-easier to add a rule (house rule) here-or-there, as necessary (and with approval from the group), than to dive into a huge machine and attempt to to start yanking out cogs, gears, and pistons, all the while hoping the machine keeps running and the players understand what you’re doing and agree with it.
“So they should have nothing and you just make shit up. Solid gane design. Here is a game for you just make everything up...brilliant”
DeleteYup, just like they did in 1974. That’s what old school gaming is about: changing and making up rules.
I've reached the point where I strongly prefer a universal mechanic that can be applied without having to consult the rules book during play. It's a major reason why I love Shadowdark. I hate having to consult charts during combat. I ran a short campaign of Gamma World 2E a couple of years ago and combat drove me nuts. Every weapon type had a different to-hit target number depending on the type of armor worn by the defender. Having to look up the target number every roll really felt cumbersome and in the way.
ReplyDeleteI think I've arrived at a very similar place as you. The way I've articulated it has been 'very simple/minimalist _mechanics_' while still allowing (encouraging, even!) much more detailed ways to use and modify the mechanic, from game to game and situation to situation.
ReplyDelete(I'm talking about HeroQuest, basically, in my case; but I think the specific brand/logo of minimalism isn't that relevant.)
I’m curious whether you not just ignored rules to EPT but modified them from the beginning. As you note above, it inherited a lot from OD&D, to the point of altering the setting (or perhaps the author changed his mind in later publications). For example, later Tékumel has no “magic users”, but rather lay priests, and these have the same skills and spells as temple priests. EPT also didn’t restrict the opportunity to learn certain spells by temple, e.g., with the Grey Hand available to all “magic users”, not just worshippers of Hrǘ’ǘ and Wurú. So, I am curious what you did. You also clearly didn’t use the “fresh off the boat” (FOB) assumption of the original.
ReplyDeleteAlso, did you consider using Brett Slocum’s “Heroic Age of Tékumel” rules? If I ever get to run an EPT campaign, I would use these, as they pretty much act as a clean-up of EPT that adapts it to the later updates to Tékumel, while providing ways to generate both Tsolyáni characters as well as FOB (and with a funnel option). And stats from EPT can be ported without any changes.
I never considered using "Heroic Age of Tékumel" mostly because the original purpose of House of Worms was to give the EPT rules a fair shake. You're right, though, that I've made lots of modifications/alterations to the rules over the years of play, some of which bring the game more in line with later conceptions of Tékumel. However, I still kept the magic-user and priest classes as separate things with unique skills for each, along with lots of other stuff that doesn't quite "fit" into the setting as it evolved. My vision of Tékumel is my own and undoubtedly at odds with the "official" version in several places.
DeleteI for one would be most interested to read more regarding those last two sentences.
DeleteI'll try to write a post about this sometime this week.
DeleteThanks! I look forward to it.
DeleteThe rules are there to be thorough as if the designer actually thought about what questions could,arise and being a good designer offer some clarity. Not a slavish desire to force folks to do something rather a thoughtful practice to offer guidance that the reader is free to ignore adopt or change.
ReplyDeleteIf you are too lazy, too distracted or, too dumb that's a you thing but do not blame thorough game design for your faults.
For about 20 years my gaming group's game of choice was Hackmaster 4e. We really enjoyed the game, despite the amount of crunch to the game. At it's core, it's basically a mix of 1st and 2nd ed AD&D. The crunchy bits were things like Honor, a complex crit system, fumbles, spell mishaps, a progressive skill system, etc.
ReplyDeleteWell, as a DM I got tired of utilizing it. Especially when it came to combat. I looked at the system and thought if I just strip it down, it's doable. Then again as I looked at it, I thought "well, I just have AD&D all over again". I thought of going back to 1st ed, we tried it, and my group wanted to go back to HM4e. The reason being is more than half of my group weren't familiar with AD&D 1st ed (younger players).
So I stuck with HM4e with some modifications, mainly only using classes out of the PHB. Well, the power creep was still a problem. When you have a progressive skill system, along with a progressive ability score system, power creep in HM4E is an inevitability. Just ramping up encounters by either hit dice or quantity wasn't the answer. All it did was bog down combat even more.
SO I finally told the group I can't run HM4E anymore. MY best friend Jeff can run it for his game, but I'm not happy with it anymore. I said I'd present a few options they can look over to see what they like and we'd come to an agreement. It finally came down to Adv Labyrinth Lord, which I'm very happy with. For me it has just the right amount of complexity without bogging things down, and I can easily add things I like.
I guess as I've gotten older, I prefer a rules light game, but not too light. I wanted something to provide enough challenge to the players and a simple combat system. I wanted to keep the game moving along. For the past 3 years or so, Adv LL hits the spot.
So, James, you're saying your group has mutual trust and you treat the rules as suggestions, but hand-wave them in favor of common sense and the flow of the game? This is the way.
ReplyDeleteIndeed it is.
DeleteRules. Without them, we live with the animals.
ReplyDeleteI'm conflicted. For me, what makes TTRPG's a 'game' instead of 'free format fantasizing', are the rules. Generally speaking I like the rules, because they give guidance on how to play 'the game'. And although this may result in repeatedly looking up rules in books for the more 'rules heavy' games, it also provides a shared and common framework (for both player's and the GM) on how things work, instead of a GM 'just winging it' on a case by case basis. Having said that, I think that these days I may appreciate the 'rules light' systems more than the 'rules heavy' games, if only because that makes it easier to memorize the rules without constantly having to look them up.
ReplyDeleteI was a huge RQ fan for ages. The last campaign I ran, however, I realized that just prior to running a combat that involved more than a handful of participants I would start getting a headache and fatigue.
ReplyDeleteI started avoiding fights in the game, and not because of the deadliness, because of the dreary dredge of attack rolls vs parry rolls, followed by hit locations, damage rolls, the immediate effects of damage, praying somebody would roll a crit, do that somebody, on either side, would go down. Just to break the rules crunch slog….
I packed it up, sadly, and went back to B/X style gaming.
Keep It Simple Stupid
Or just run BRP in its most simplistic form of the rules. Scaling down to stats, a few skills, and removing the hit locations works great, if not even better.
Delete