A few years ago, I wrote a post in defense of “vanilla fantasy,” that oft-maligned category of fantasy assembled from a plethora of well-worn elements ripped bleeding from a wide variety of pop cultural sources. It's the sort of fantasy that offers elves and dwarves, orcs and dragons, populating a comfortable backdrop of castles, taverns, and ruined keeps to explore. In my original post, I argued that familiarity is not, in itself, a vice and that, much like vanilla ice cream, this style of fantasy can be delightful, provided it's well made.
I’ve been thinking about that post again recently, not in the abstract but in a more immediate sense. Refereeing Tékumel has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my gaming life. The world is rich and strange, filled with a secret history, believable cultures, and cosmic mysteries that continue to engage my players and me even after more than a decade of continuous play. But Tékumel is, undeniably, a demanding setting. Refereeing it requires a certain level of commitment, not just from me, but also from the players. There are fewer familiar touchstones. Every temple, every clan, every creature has to be introduced carefully (and often repeatedly) until everyone involved can differentiate the Golden Bough clan from the Golden Dawn clan and distinguish a Mrúr from a Shédra. Doing so has been a joyful labor, yes, but a labor nonetheless.
After so many years of that, I find myself looking at my large library of RPGs and thinking fondly of simpler pleasures. I don’t mean simple in the sense of dull or uninspired; I mean something that requires less instruction, less orientation – a world where the players already know what an elf is, what orcs are, and where a sword +1 is a treasured find. Something like The World of Greyhawk might fit the bill or even an original setting that proudly embraces the classical tropes of the genre. I'm thinking of a setting where there's no need to consult pronunciation guides or encyclopedic sourcebooks, because everyone already knows and understands it.
I suppose what I might be seeking is a kind of fantasy palate cleanser. After a long and satisfying feast of intricate, exotic fare, my appetite turns to something more basic – not because it’s better, but because it’s different, maybe even a little more easily digestible. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just as you can grow weary of overly dense worldbuilding or settings so unique that they require a glossary, you can also find yourself longing for something familiar, something one can settle into without having to decode it first. There’s a reason so many of us fondly remember playing The Keep on the Borderlands or The Village of Hommlet: those were places you could walk into and start playing immediately, no lore dump required. There’s real value to that kind of immediacy.
The funny thing is that, after spending so long championing the offbeat and the obscure, I find myself needing to re-learn how to embrace the obvious. It’s actually surprisingly hard. I must admit to feeling a certain guilt about even pondering this, as if, by considering a campaign filled with orcs and magic swords, I might somehow regressed in my tastes or skills as a referee. That's nonsense, of course, but I feel it nonetheless. Vanilla isn’t bad; vanilla is foundational. It's the baseline against which everything else is judged. Like any flavor, it can be bland or brilliant depending on who’s mixing the ingredients.
To reiterate a point I've made before, I remind you of something a friend of mine said to me at Gamehole Con a few years ago. He and I were enjoying some locally made ice cream – Wisconsin takes these things seriously – and he remarked, “People think vanilla is plain, but that’s only because they’ve never had good vanilla.” I’ve never forgotten that. Sometimes, after wandering far and wide in the world of fantasy, what you really want is something straightforward, something honest, something that reminds you of why you fell in love with the genre in the first place.
I gotta recc some 30s PULP! It's every genre. Vanilla, then choco, then vanilla if you want, then coffee toffee neopolitan.
ReplyDeletemy projection is that after so long in Tekumel the grammar of that particular kind of creativity will leak into whatever vanilla or non-vanilla you choose to play. you can't have been a dance for a decade and not have it impact your posture, in other words.
ReplyDeleteThat's quite possible.
Delete"Just as you can grow weary of overly dense worldbuilding or settings so unique that they require a glossary, you can also find yourself longing for something familiar, something one can settle into without having to decode it first."
ReplyDeleteThat's the crux of the matter. After 30 years of wearing a suit, I'm all for vanilla, and so are my players. They're in C2, The Ghost Tower of Inverness, right now. We recently finished X1 and before that T1. They keep coming back, and thanking me, because its so digestible.
I entirely get what your saying. When my Land of a Thousand Towers campaign is at a stopping point, I will probably go to something more familiar.
ReplyDeleteI did find something that might interest you. IT's from Bat in the Attic, they same guy who did the Blackmarsh campaign, which I believe you did a review.
He is now doing a Kickstarted for the entire game world Blackmarsh is located: Into the Majestic Fantasy Realms: The Northern Marches. It's familiar in the fact is has standard races and fantasy tropes, but a new game world to play with those ideas. It's seems like WoG without being WoG.
https://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2025/05/into-the-majestic-fantasy-realms.html
IT might be worth the look.
I am a huge fan of Rob's work, so I am well aware of this.
DeleteThanks for the shout Blackstone.
DeleteA great suggestion. I have been running a campaign in Blackmarsh and the Northern Marches (using advance notes from Rob) for a couple years now (though we just recently actually left the Blackmarsh map). It's a nice setting and has plenty of room to make it your own.
DeleteNo problem. Always want to point out somebody doing good work
DeleteThe Dolmenwood campaign you talked about seems a lot closer to what you're talking - though maybe vanilla with Lucky charms Bits or something! I've thought of doing the thing where you take a random module (or couple of modules) from Judges Guild or something and just a build a a campaign out from there without any preconceived notions going into it. I actually have a plan like this in place in a box labeled "Break Glass in Case You Need Emergency Campaign".
ReplyDeleteDolmenwood is definitely in the ballpark of what I'm considering, but it's still got enough unique oddities that it's not quite the "orcs-and-elves" vanilla I'm craving right now.
DeleteI'd love to see you write about a Greyhawk campaign, as it was the first setting I really fell into. I have a recurring daydream where I run a game set in the Great Kingdom, where the initial hook is that the players are tasked to enter that evil kingdom for some purpose (rescue a kidnapped prince/princess; find an artifact or arcane tome, etc.) and try to avoid being discovered.
ReplyDeleteI guess the idea is to have "good" players in a lawful evil setting and see how things go. Do they come to the aid of a village being taxed to death by a local governor and risk being discovered? Do they find some resistance group dreaming of restoring the kingdom of Aerdy to its noble past? I've given this far too much thought for something that will almost certainly never happen...
As a Madisonian, I'm now curious as to which locally made ice cream you were enjoying at Gamehole Con. Babcock? Or maybe Chocolate Shoppe?
ReplyDeleteVanilla isn't bad, especially if you put your own imprint on the game. Mix up the ingredients a bit, add a bit of personality. Vanilla isn't probably the best term for this. I am reminded of an old Onion article, "Taco Bell's Five Ingredients Combined in a Totally New Way". Maybe we should call it Taco Bell Fantasy, and not Vanilla Fantasy.
The Heretic
Chocolate Shoppe, since they have a little stand at the con. I think I had a bowl of it nearly every day.
DeleteI'm in awe of your ability (or anyone else's) to run Tekumel or similarly non-standard-fantasy campaigns. It certainly isn't hitting the "Easy" button! I feel like I have enough of a challenge getting my players up to speed without pronunciation guides. But my players are also relatively new to RPGs, so I suppose polearm nomenclature is the challenging language we're dealing with.
DeleteThis news makes me smile. You see, I’m one of those “Rip Van Winkle” D&D players — time and tide carried me away from 1e/2e tables, and lulled me into forgetting about games for far too long.
ReplyDeleteThis past January, a moment of nostalgia for miniatures* dropped me into the online RPG rabbit warren — and I discovered the fact of the OSR in all its permutations. Man, my heart lifted, because those old games were among the things I WASN’T DONE WITH when life detoured me — and I miss THAT KIND of game.
I’m only up to your December 2008 posts, but saw this as an opportune moment to say Thank You. I view you, James, and your comment-contributors/fellow bloggers as my DMing mentors.** Back in the day, we had several active-campaign DMs, as well as those who experimented a little. I was swept up in playing, then, but all these years later, I have the this unstoppable corner of a world sketching itself out in my head — and I think it might be a great fun to try it out on some of the old crew online this summer. Thanks to you all, I’ll remember to set my hooks and play the lines with a light hand — the bait they bite, I’ll give a little tug on, and let ‘em run with it!
*Truth be told, I don’t remember us actually playing with them for long, but some of the sculpts were so cool, I kept buying them.
**Thanks, also, for your series of D&D book art reviews — you saved me a good deal of money on a used 1e DMG, knowing that there had been a second cover!
I'm running Palace of the Vampire Queen in 5e. It's very "good vanilla." The party has been despoiling bodies so they can't be raised as undead and is now considering whether their next move is to try and rest, rescue the Dwarven children and Princess, or outflank the Vamps and take out the nearby Gnoll and Orc lairs before the Vampire Queen Baylor can use them to restock the dungeon.
ReplyDeleteMakes sense to me. Perfectly good sense. It only sucks so far as you feel you need to justify this somehow, to someone!
ReplyDeleteAnd FWIW, one gamer's vanilla is another's exotica. I didn't experience the 'default fantasy icecream' you describe until after 30-plus years of gaming, and all its 'vanilla' assumptions and lore were alien and a bit overwhelming for a long time. Still are, maybe~sorta; I keep reading Grognardia to find out more backstory and history behind all the D&Diana, which I still can't take for granted!
Let us not forget that, once upon a time, vanilla itself was exotic and difficult to find — a real treat. Now of course 90% of the flavor you encounter is artificial: an extract from wood pulp and not true vanilla.
ReplyDeleteAs with everything else, Sturgeon's Law abides.
One of the genius things about RuneQuest is that it presents itself as fairly vanilla, albeit bronze-age vanilla. It has elves, dwarves, trolls, magic spells, magic items, etc. So, it's a low bar to entry for the players. And then, after they've been playing for a little bit the curtain gets pulled back (or not), the GM can reveal things like the godtime, the mythology, the fact that elves are actually plants, etc. etc. ... it's an underappreciated feature of the game, I think.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever considered Basic D&D? Or the Expert D&D set, that came out in 1981?
ReplyDeleteFrom your recent postings, I sense a longtime distaste for the AD&D style of play, with it's emphasis on rules and complexity. Like the Grayhawk campaign is fantastic and immersive, but also full of subtle political considerations. Maybe building out an known but fun-focused entity like X1, Isle Of Dread, with some follow up island hopping campaigning could reinvigorate your outlook.
Why stop at B/X D&D? Why not try further back with OD&D? There's Swords and Wizardry Complete that covers the 3LLBs and the 4 supplements, or various flavors of White Box D&D like Delving Deeper and several others. [I'm sure you are aware of the ODD74 forums, James.]
ReplyDeleteI started in very early 1977 with OD&D. Our group moved on to AD&D as fast as things were published, including the previews in The Dragon magazine. We turned up our nose (wrongly!) to Holmes D&D and later B/X as "kid's stuff" because we were college students and "knew better". Geez!
I went on playing AD&D to almost all the way through 2e before running out of players. 3e and later left me cold and I was out of the action for a decade and a half. I discovered the OSR about 2011 or so and have been following developments since.
If I can ever get a group going again (now that I'm retired), I'd like to use White Box or Delving Deeper or Swords and Wizardry or even B/X or Old School Essentials and run a homebrew campaign based on the Outdoor Survival map, going for what your are calling "vanilla".
Bottom Line: I'd like to get back as close as I can to "First Generation D&D" play, including megadungeons, sandbox play, and an Open Game Table with dozens of come-and-go players. Only time will tell . . .
Please keep posting on this topic . . .
Gonyaulax of ODD74
P.S. Sensitive subject or not, THANK YOU SO MUCH for Dwimmermount.
Right now, my interest isn't so much about a ruleset as a setting. EPT is very simple; it's basically OD&D with some house rules. What I'm craving is a setting that's straightforward and easily understood, without all the baroqueness and exoticism of, say, Tékumel. Rules are important and odds are good I'll use something basic, but that's not my main concern at the moment.
DeleteI'm glad you enjoyed Dwimmermount. It's not a sensitive subject for me, at least not anymore. Live and learn is my motto and, despite everything, I did learn a lot from the experience.
James, it seems Dwimmetmont Is a good place to start if you want go back to the more standard type of fantasy.
DeleteI’m sure there’s plenty more ideas ready to be mined In that realm.
Please don't blame yourself for wanting something more simple/vanilla. As long as you and your group are having fun, you are doing it right. And if that means 'Greyhawk' for you and your group right now, then 'Greyhawk' it is. Don't overthink it.
ReplyDeleteI don't think either of us is a big fan of Tunnels & Trolls, but I note there were demo games of the new edition at one of the big UK cons. The game did finally grow a proper setting section at some point (6th or 7th) and it did sound extremely vanilla with a few oddities to make it stand out. You could also build a setting around the hints in the various adventures.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen/heard/read enough about modern engine to be sure, but it's not impossible that they finally fixed that wretched melee system that's always been the biggest selling/no-sale point.
If it comes out at the right time it might be worth consideration, and I say that as decided non-fan of the earlier versions.
been in that situation. I was exhausted after years of running the campaign and finished it the best way possible - a significant event we still talk about to this day. then we choose simple naive vanilla in the form of 'thunder rift' by colin mcomb of TSR. it worked for a few months but we were changed...we couldnt really go back and decided to play in a free form setting where the vibe is what matters. just loosely connected adventures with no lore and deep impact on the world. as long as it had the pulp vibe of empire of the necromancers it was good. a world with unsolved mysteries to remain like that. good times. then came symbaroum and ignited the flame for complicated game.
ReplyDeleteYou can’t go wrong with Greyhawk. And it’s easy enough to run it with B/X type rules.
ReplyDeleteOr… just whip up a homebrew. In the old school Gygaxian style: jot down a starting village on the frontier, a nearby dungeon or two to explore, maybe a rough idea of the civilized kingdom it’s a part of and the dominant religion, and have at it.
Maybe it’ll be fun for a palate cleansing few sessions, or maybe it’ll grow into a 10-year rich campaign and setting?
Just make all the vanilla assumptions and have at it.
With gaming years slowly dwindling, one could do a lot worse than a final hurrah in Gary’s world as a nod and thank you. That’s my plan at least.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know anything about Ghosts of Saltmarsh, an adventure for 5E? It sounds old school, but I know next to nothing about it, except for the cool title, which reminds me of the original module, which I liked a lot as a kid. Oh, one thing I know about it: they put the sample dungeon from Holmes Basic somewhere in there, which sounds pretty good, imo.
ReplyDeleteAll I know about the 5e book, is what I read about it over at Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosts_of_Saltmarsh
DeleteI ran the three 5e modules while keeping my 1e copies close at hand. The 5e adaptations are very good. I have some comparative thoughts below.
DeleteThe 5e adaptations are better in that they give a lot more detail about the town and the inhabitants that can be used to set up some intrigues, especially if you know your Greyhawk geopolitics. The setup for how the party can get involved in U2 also is handled better, if I remember correctly. Where they slightly suffer in comparison to the 1e modules is that some of the combat encounters are scripted to prevent a TPK. One example is the bullywug tribe encounter. Given that the bullywug encounter is almost certain to occur in the 1e module (railroading?), and can be a TPK, ultimately I gave the 5e module a pass for that.
Another interesting post. I wonder if some of the appeal of such 'vanilla' settings of simple dragons and goblins and giants might come from a nostalgia for a time when this idea of 'vanilla' was merely a shared cultural homogeneity that no longer exists. There was a sense of ‘one big society’ then, even if you weren’t part of things directly. After all, I didn’t have to watch the TV show Dallas to know that, whoever J.R. was, someone shot him. When I first heard of D&D (freshman year high school), I considered myself agnostic, wasn't a fan of fantasy or sci-fi (beyond Star Wars), and had no clue what an RPG was. Yet when a friend showed me the first Monster Manual, I could connect with most things. I immediately conjured up images of medieval knights or priests holding crosses, I connected with dragons, vampires looking like Bela Lugosi or Christopher Lee, ghosts and such critters. Things like a Beholder or Mind Flayer puzzled me, though I had read The Hobbit, so figured elves were more Tolkien than Keebler. But there was at least enough cultural common ground that we all shared in those days, even if we weren't all part of the same demographic groups, that the game could tap into. So the very first time I tried to play, many of the basics didn’t have to be explained. By virtue of just being alive then, I understood the much of the context and backdrops. Not only a simpler time, but a more unified time. I dunno. Just came to mind as I read this.
ReplyDeleteYour point about “vanilla” campaigns brought to mind something I’ve been thinking about. I’ve been curious and wanting to ask about the numerous campaigns you’ve run, both long and short term. Do you find yourself repeating a theme or overarching plot after so many years of running campaigns? I mean…not in a bad way, but similar to so many fantasy and sci-fi books that have the same basic LOTR plot line. There might be subplots and some twists and turns…but the basics involve some unsuspecting, “Everyman” main character(s) that somehow get swept up in a small part of a much larger plot that propels them into a series of adventures that includes a key adversary and/or objective. Some “ever elusive” plot thread that runs continuously through the adventures you plan.
ReplyDeleteWhile it is easy to blame the Good Professor and LOTR on this 'trope,' it seems every story anymore is required to lead to some dramatic finale where the characters must save the world — and after a while that kinda gets old. Isn't it enough to just kill monsters, take their stuff, and build a castle somewhere? Master of your domain, and all that?
DeleteOn the other hand, it might be refreshing to take a page from Moorcock's Eternal anit-hero Elric, and have your everyman characters swept up in an apocalyptic adventure where their destiny is to end the world. That could be fun.
You can have vanilla without necessarily going back to the old days. Free League's The One Ring is a pretty good evocation of Middle Earth adventuring. Unlike Tekumel, everyone knows Middle Earth, the original source of D&D Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and Hobbits (and you can legally use that name in that game!). Another honourable mention if you want a more free-form old school D&D experience might be to get the new/old City State of the Invincible Overlord and do an infinite hexcrawl.
ReplyDeleteCastle Greyhawk beckons, always—
ReplyDeleteits deep treasures lure
fools and heroes to vasty dooms
Allan.