The words of some fictional languages, like those of Edgar Rice Burroughs's Barsoomian, include no stress markers. Others, like those of M.A.R. Barker's Tsolyáni, are riddled with them by comparison. Because I have become familiar with the pronunciation of Tsolyáni, I don't find its use of stress markers to be off-putting. However, I've heard from many people that, rather than aiding pronunciation, they contribute to the sense that Tsolyáni is difficult to pronounce, which in turn alienates people potentially interested in Tékumel.
I'm currently working on a project that includes names, words, and even occasionally whole phrases from a couple of fictional languages. I ask again: would you find the use of stress markers or other types of notations ("accent marks") helpful or simply discouraging? Do you prefer, for example, "sha-Artan" or "sha-Artán?"
Stress markers are fine. Diacritical marks used only as decoration, however, annoy me to no end.
ReplyDeleteShort answer: include them.
ReplyDeleteLong answer: when making a fictional language, you need to make pronunciation as clear as possible. Anything that makes pronunciation clearer is good.
FWIW, I’m pretty sure anyone complaining about Tsolyáni’s accents is just as put off by Quenya, which doesn’t use them as much and explicitly says to pronounce this like Classical Latin.
I think you have to write it the way you see it written in your mind. Omitting them on the page, because most English speakers struggle with them, will, I suspect, make your writing feel stilted and artificial. I'd make the same point about adding useless diacritical marks in order to make an articial language look exotic.
ReplyDeleteI love stress markers. I use 'em in my own fantasy & sci-fi conlangs.
ReplyDeleteBut they get a bad rap from their superficial similarity to that vilest of linguistic implements: the gratuitous fantasy apostrophe.
In short: if you have a fantasy city that you want pronounced "DRIZZ-næk", this is good: Dríznäk; and this is punishable by death: Driz'nak.
Doesn't bother me, but I'm far too lazy (and English-speaking) to ever bother to include them when writing myself. Tsolyani is Tsolyani and how it sounds in your head when reading the word is no concern of mine.
ReplyDeleteIf they are functional (that is, if they really mark stress), and if you care about how people pronounce your artificial language, then include them. I am very glad to have stress marks for Tsolyanu, because I know there is a right way to pronounce it and I would like to pronounce it that way.
ReplyDeleteTsolyáni, not Tsolyanu...argh.
DeleteSeconded. I understand how to read a stress marker in Spanish (i.e. it indicates which syllable of a word is stressed, as a deviation from the default rule). French stress markers, on the other hand, I guess just mean: "pronounce this vowel instead of leaving it silent like 80% of letters in French writing". Spanish-style stress markers are useful, insofar as the fictional language is otherwise easy to pronounce relying only on the letters themselves.
DeleteI love stress markers because otherwise I do not know which syllable to stress (and I have a nigh-infallible knack for stressing the wrong syllable in the absence of stress markers).
ReplyDeleteI think that they're important unless there's an unrealistically iron-clad rule for pronunciation which is applicable in all cases.
ReplyDeleteWithout the accent I would pronounce it, “shaw-AR-tin”. As long as you make it clear that accents are functional and are applied consistently, use them.
ReplyDeleteAnything less than writing out a constructed language in the international phonetic alphabet is a half measure.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Alea and am of the opposite mindset as John Higgins. While I have no opinion on their use in fantasy, I greatly appreciate the use of diacritics - especially when it comes to pronouncing the names of students. In fact, I find myself instinctively looking for diacritics whenever I see a foreign name.
ReplyDeleteI guess that I'm kind of an outlier, so my opinion isn't really relevant, probably. I have a passing interest in constructed languages and the knowledge of linguistics involved in that, so I have no problems with diacritical marks so long as they serve an actual purpose and aren't just there to look cool (Motörhead, Blue Öyster Cult, and Spın̈al Tap get a pass on that sort of thing, the last due to the parodic element and the use of the dotless 'i', but Mötley Crüe and almost all other English-language bands do not). If a word includes an apostrophe, though, it had damned well better be marking a glottal stop, an English possessive/genitive form, or an abbreviation from an otherwise normal phrase. Marvel Comics and R. A. Salvatore have a lot to answer for.
ReplyDeleteUm, I think that comment may have gotten away from me somewhere.
I'm trolling you and didn't even know it. Lol.
DeleteOh, okay. I didn't know it either, so I guess that's fair.
DeleteIn my language, 'a' differs from 'á', not just in length or stress. Likewise with 'é', 'ö', etc. So something like this pretty much guarantees that I will misspronounce everything
ReplyDeleteUse them, they serve a purpose.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to help those people who have not been sufficiently exposed to them to understand, then maybe include a page of useful examples from English :)
Do you mean only for stress? Or do you mean as a diacritic, which changes the phonetic value, i.e, the pronunciation of á is different from a?
ReplyDeleteSolely for stress.
DeleteIt doesn’t put me off if I know that it’s only to mark a stressed syllable. But a casual reader (player or potential buyer) of a sha-Arthán product might not know it’s only for stress, which could put distance between the product and a sale.
DeleteA bigger problem though is how to get an á out of a non-á-using keyboard. ALT+code is slow on a regular keyboard, unwieldy on many others, and to remember a different code for each stressed vowel is asking a lot from some folks.