When I was in the seventh grade, I won first prize at my school's science fair and so was sent, along with a classmate, who'd won second prize, to compete in the state science fair. I was understandably very excited about this, but also a bit nervous, too. I thought my project – a Newton car – good. However, I didn't think it stood much of a chance of winning an award at the state level. I wasn't completely right about that. I won an honorable mention, which is only a couple of steps up from a participation trophy, or so I thought at the time. Meanwhile, my classmate, who was also my best friend, won an actual award. I was happy for him, of course, but also a bit jealous.
During the state science fair, my classmate and I spent most of our time in a large auditorium, waiting with our projects so that we could talk to the judges that roamed the place throughout the day. For reasons I've never understood, he and I were not placed near one another, so we couldn't talk. Fortunately, I'd brought some books to read while I waited, one of them being the AD&D Monster Manual. I spent much of my time perusing its pages to pass the time, as there were often large gaps between when I spoke to one judge and when I'd speak to the next one.
The kid whose science project was next to mine – it had something to do with plants and photosynthesis, the details of which elude me – took notice of my Monster Manual and recognized it. Turns out he was also a Dungeons & Dragons player. This perked me up quite a bit, since, if I couldn't talk to my friend and classmate about D&D, at least I could talk to someone about my favorite pastime. I sometimes look back with envy with how easily my younger self could carry on enthusiastic conversations with total strangers simply on the thin basis of a shared interest. Nowadays, I can scarcely imagine doing such a thing.
During the course of the conversation, this kid let slip that his current character was "a 42nd-level demigod." I asked him to explain what he meant by that. He then launched into a lengthy accounting of the events of his campaign, in which his character had done all manner of over-the-top things, including slaying a significant number of the deities in Deities & Demigods. His character, as a consequence, had risen not only rise to the lofty level of 42, but had also stolen a portion of his vanquished foes' divine power and ascended to the level of demigod, gaining the standard divine abilities listed in that book (among other things, like many of the artifacts and relics in the Dungeon Masters Guide).
I did my best not to be rude or roll my eyes at this, but it was difficult. I asked lots of probing questions about his campaign and why his Dungeon Master had allowed this. I suppose it's good that the kid had zero self-awareness. He didn't pick up on my concealed tone of disdain. Instead, he answered all my questions and recounted, in some detail, not just the epic battles in which his demigod character had fought, but also the fact that his DM had been restrained in rewarding him, since, despite all his victories, his character "still only a demigod." How does on respond to that?
I was reminded of this memory yesterday, when I read some of the comments to my post about Dolmenwood. I was genuinely pleased – and a little surprised – that people enjoy reading about the characters and events of the various campaigns I'm refereeing. "Let me tell you about my character" has long been a phrase to send shivers down one's spine. I recall that, at the one and only GenCon I attended, the employees of a game company (White Wolf?) were all wearing shirts mocking this, for example. Consequently, I've long been somewhat reluctant to post too much about what I'm doing in my games. As fun as RPG campaigns are for the people actually involved in them, they're frequently both impenetrable and a little boring for those on the outside.
However, now that I've seen that people are, in fact, interested in them, I plan to talk about them a bit more. I probably won't go on about them at any length – I don't want to overwhelm you like the kid with the 42nd-level demigod – but I will make a more concerted effort to write posts about them. I might do a weekly or biweekly "campaign update" in which I keep everyone appraised about how things are unfolding. If there's a character or event deserving of more detail, they might warrant a separate post, especially if I think doing so has a wider applicability. I've done this in the past on a couple of occasions in recent years, so it's probably a worthy consideration for the future.
So, look forward to more discussions of House of Worms, Barrett's Raiders, and Dolmenwood in the weeks and months to come.
That's funny. Back in that brief moment when D&D was super-popular in the 80's, we would talk about it at recess at my elementary school. I hadn't played the game yet, but I remember distinctly my friends talking about becoming demigods and how you had to be at least 40th level, or something, to achieve godhood. That stuck with me. I thought that was an actual game mechanic, until I got the books for myself and started immersing myself in the rules.
ReplyDelete(ah, impetuous youth. I decided my wizard would make a +40 bastard sword for my ranger. A friend thought that was stupid and over-the-top, so I 'compromised' and said it could only be used twice a day. He still, correctly, thought it was a stupid idea)
The Heretic
Every now and then I'll be having a conversation with someone and I'll drop something about D&D or computer rpgs just to see if it's a shared interest. Hasn't resulted in a conversation yet, but who knows?
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to the campaign updates!
I don't talk gaming too much, though among those I have talked a bit of gaming with is our recently hired minister... Her son plays D&D with kids from where they used to live in her office on Sunday... She played with her brother when they were kids.
DeleteI've had an occasional conversation when showing off my Lego to guests, and they notice all the gaming books.
I've always been surprised though NOT to run into a bit more gaming conversation at work or conferences.
Thankful for everyone sharing and I personally haven't gamed in decades, sadly. But, I thoroughly enjoy reading others accounts of campaigns and memories.
DeleteI wasn't that kid at the science fair, but we played the same way as 5th graders. We "leveled" our characters to around 30th level then started fighting gods to take there power. You kill Thor you become the patron of thunder.
ReplyDeleteNo idea where we learned it from, we were small town kids in eastern Washington.
Actually I thought more about this. I think I had a revelation.
DeleteDragonlance Legends.
The whole plot centers around a high level charachter trying kill a god and take her power. This is where we got the idea.
Sounds a bit like the Forgotten Realms Avatar/Time of Troubles trilogy where various mortals find themselves elevated to godhood and taking on deceased gods' portfolios. I can't remember if these ascended mortals actually killed the gods or were simply around to pick up the rewards.
DeleteI'm pretty sure the analogous situation (level 40 = godhood!) happened in Southern California (where I was) before Dragonlance Legends. It was definitely well before the Time of Troubles.
DeleteCome to think of it, we can probably blame this on Deities and Demigods. Someone once told me they thought the class/level combinations in the stats of the deities in that book were meant to be the target you needed to complete to *become* that god.
And also don't forget you kill (or at least foil) a god in Q1.
The Heretic
@The Heretic
DeleteThat was 100% the reason why my group did it - at least insofar as the class/level and combat stats meant they were to be fought, and could be replaced!
His 42nd level demi god campaign does sound more fun than your weather tables and language fetishes...
ReplyDeleteI disagree mightly on that one, fellow. After all, what is the purpose of killing Thor in order to be the god of thunder UNLESS it is to mess arround with weather tables, huh, huh? Not to mention that an entire part of the cult of Boccob must be, by all logic, a indecent mass of language fetishes. Demi-godhood is meaningless without the dice behind it. In other words, its not fun to be Thor unless you have been Don Blake first, so to speak.
DeleteI’m particularly interested in your Dolmenwood reports.
ReplyDeleteDitto.
DeleteI still recall (and recoil from) one of my greatest moments as DM... One summer at Hidden Valley, our local Boy Scout camp, I introduced a handful of other scouts to D&D. It was 3, maybe 4 kids, all friends from another troop. They rolled up some characters, and we played late into the night. It was a fun one shot.
ReplyDeleteThe next summer, I was back at Hidden Valley for a week and I ran into the same guys. They were so excited: they had spent the intervening year playing D&D with the characters from that first session, and they were all now high levels. I said, great! Let's play this week! One of them was a camp counselor that year and suggested we meet in the mess hall, the biggest building there, and asked if they could invite some other scouts to the session. "Sure," I replied.
Word spread thru camp like a wildfire. When I showed up the next night, I found over *30* players sitting around a half-dozen tables pushed together, all with their favorite high-level characters. In a heady mixture of astonishment and utter panic, I knew my planned dungeon crawl wouldn't work — so I flipped open the Monster Manual to the "D" listings and said, "You're all going to Hell."
...and? Dude, don't leave us hanging! Give us the details!
DeleteTurns out one of my nephews up in Madeira/Cincinnati is on the cusp of earning his Eagle Scout credential. That's cool.
DeleteCamp(s) were simply not part of my family outlay, but I was a "kid on patrol" up on the Appalachian Trail and someone had left a donut box behind at a primitive campsite. We walked into that site just as (gruff brushy sounds here) a black bear came in from the ground cover. He was maybe, maybe twenty feet from us.
That (biblical expletive) bear stood up. What was unnerving became much larger, and wild, and more unnerving. No video games, no movies, no wall, rail or fence. You and a bear. It sounds ghastly but you start to wonder if you can run faster than your companions. Years later I would learn about "Running from a Bear". But at that moment it was truly terrifying.
The bear sort of shifted from one side to the other, hunkered back down, and bid us farewell.
It was probably the foremost lesson that reminded me that D&D is a game, a great game, but a game. You can do godlike things, be murderous, and ale-talk to exotic women who would never give you a second glance in your cheap suit in real life. Stupid paisley tie; did I wear that thing for four years?
The science fair guys are cool. The scouts are cool. Being a nerd - or anyone else - who mentions his interests in conversation is cool. Man, it beats prattling about politics, doesn't it? And the adventure journals are very, very cool. No one got hurt.
And don't forget your Traveller/Sci-Fi mandate for this year! I can't track with it, but passion is infectious.
I just want to register how much I like the name "Hidden Valley". It screams "adventure module"..."HV01: Forbidden Vault of the Hidden Valley (and adventure for levels 5-8)". Let's see...The "forbidden vault" would be the cryo-chamber were Stodos the Ice Toad degenerated from a human space explorer into the forerunner of all bullywugs...And the "hidden vale" is on Oerth's moon, acessible through a portal in Blackmoor - the entire map of the module would be just a Gygaxian reading of the pond in the middle of the scouts camp, frogs, leaky kayaks and sitting benches included, reimagined as an immense otherworldly barsoonian swamp. There, done, lets phone Len Lakofka to write it.
DeleteThe camp I went into in California was Lost Valley. Funny you should mention the monster manual...some of the older kids were running a game on one of the outings and the DM asked me to look through the Monster Manual II for monsters with high hit dice and low armor class. I found the jackpot in the "D" section of the book.
DeleteThe Heretic
Just chiming in with my own Boy Scout camp D&D misadventure. Never got to play at camp; it was forbidden. I did sneak in some Dragon magazines to read while stuck in the sticks. Unfortunately, they got wet. I still have them, water damage and all, missing the covers from the damage long ago.
DeleteAs for names, all our campsites were named after various native nations. Ours that year was "Gros Ventre," which we all in our ignorant youth translated as "Long Voyage," as it was the furthest campsite from the chow hall and the camp store. Of course, it actually means "Big Belly," which was also appropriate, at least for myself, as I was the Chunk of the bunch.
Oh Yeah! We'll after a few years of playing I had an 11th level Ranger with a +2 Giant Slayer that he used, along with the help of two other party members, to kill King Snurre in the coal black halls of the fire giant king.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that you don't feel you can just talk to a stranger about gaming. I was in the only used store in edmonton last weekend, and struck up a conversation with a couple in there. they were QUITE a bit younger than me (sigh) and wearing their very different politics on their patches/clothes/etc, but we had no issue discussing how nice it is to have the books at the table (vs pdfs), Vampire as an ongoing campaign, Lovecraft as an influence and games we long to find time to play. it was nice.
ReplyDeleteSame. As far as I'm concerned the main reason to go to the FLGS these days is to talk to people, and they're often strangers who happen to be browsing the same stuff I am or talking about a game we have in common. Really not much to be had from retail stores these days. They don't compete with online for stock, prices, or even news of what's new, and while you might get into a game through one it rarely if ever happens because the staff did anything - it happens because you talk to fellow gamers. Only things I buy at the FLGS are pity purchases, plain and simple.
Deleteactually, due to shipping for me, the FLGS is CHEAPER than ordering online. Amazon just has more. I seem to get all CoC at the FLGS, DCC at amazon
DeleteNot even close for me. One of the local stores even has the temerity to try to charge extra for special orders because of the "labor" involved. I used to work gaming retail, and I know precisely how little effort is involved in adding an item to your next order from a distributor - especially when I provide the stock code from the distributor's own catalog myself.
DeleteFor what it’s worth, I simultaneously find recaps of sessions boring but have found some of the personal content in them more interesting. Much of this blog is written with a “reviewer’s” tone, and while I find step by step recaps of gaming tedious, I admit that I have found some of your pieces about it to be some of your best writing. I recall a couple - one where your daughter asked to stop playing, and one where your group didn’t all show up and you wrestled with the issue of the friends just wanting to scrap the session and hang out, but you wanted to plow ahead. Both of those showed a side of you as the author that rarely gets shown on this blog. That may be a personal choice, which I certainly respect, but I think people are much more interesting than their characters. If you decide to publish more recaps, I for one would like to get to know the people playing a bit.
ReplyDeleteI actually have grown to like the enthusiasm and excitement in (many, not all) people telling me about their favorite characters. It is much better than listening to them rant about [whatever bothers them in today's world] and gives them an opportunity to revisit fond memories.
ReplyDeleteI certainly remember some people in the industry that got a little big for their britches. Like this one guy...we'll call him J Wick. No, that's too obvious...let's call him John W. Any time someone would want to share with him the character they created in the world he helped create, based on his inspiration, he'd point to his big CCG card binder and say "Let me tell you about mine first." Come on, man, grow up, smile and nod. Those "fans" are what paid your bills.
Way back in 83 or so a splinter group of our game group whipped up some high level characters to hunt through Deities and Demigods...it was a lot of fun. Completely separate from "real" AD&D, but still neat to randomly determine a pantheon and page, then fight it up. Certainly not highbrow RPGing, but it didn't always need to be!
I'd say the kid was doing it right, or at least, wasn't as far off the path of "theologically sound" D&D as you might think. "Fantasy," after all, has more than one meaning, and D&D, with its rapidly escalating power levels, is the perfect venue for high powered shenanigans.
ReplyDeleteI mean, not once, but *twice* TSR published books that statted out various gods, demigods, and heroes. Why give them hit points and armor classes if you weren't meant to fight with them? Anyone who thinks that players in Lake Geneva weren't at least occasionally killing off the Norse pantheon should probably ask themselves why the Deities and Demigods book looks so much like the Monster Manual once you crack open the spine. And yeah, the one page disclaimer at the beginning is probably like throwing a cover page on the Anarchist's Cookbook that says "Don't Do This Stuff."
I also think this rapid power escalation is what attracts many to D&D over other role-playing games. Most other games provide incremental progression, or even nearly none at all (Traveller), but D&D lets you go from pond scum to almighty wizard/warrior/whatever relatively quickly. It's a feature, not a bug.
A great many a player/DM tend to forget the listened stats for the gods are only 1/10 ‘th their true power, and even if you “ defeated” them, they just go back to their own realm.
ReplyDeleteNobody forgot anything; just like weapon speed and encumbrance, inconvenient rules tend to get ignored.
DeleteJim Hodges---
ReplyDeletePersonally I think D&D worked best and was the most fun to play amid the "realism" of those first few levels: 1-3. After level five things began to go into different directions. That's not to say playing a module for high-level characters had no enjoyment in it or high ranking characters didn't have their place, just my experience and perspective.
I mean Level 42 was a fine '80s band that even had Cherie from Excalibur in their video---HOT---but I don't think I'd want to be part of a game where a level forty-two "demigod" was featured as a player character.
And I hope you do tell about your characters past and present here!
The best campaign I ever played in was run by a very literary friend from high school who liked to describe his style of DMing as "Hemingwayesque." We fought, we suffered, we died — but with *verve.*
DeleteOver the roughly 3 years of the D&D game, only one character made it to 3rd level, while the rest of the PCs (those that survived, that is), were overjoyed when they finally reached 2nd level. While this might seem like some to be a slog, the experience was the exact opposite: we never got jaded. Every encounter was a deadly threat, and every victory and narrow escape was epic.
There's a difference between the annoying "let me tell you about my character" stuff where it's usually a story about how that person was so much more awesome than everyone else in the game or filled with inside jokes that are only funny to people that were playing in that game, and sharing campaign notes to illustrate what you're doing that other DMs might find useful, or character ideas.
ReplyDelete(I'm doing a character creation challenge with friends right now: 31 characters in 31 days from 31 different systems. It's been a fun exercise in creativity, and I've been posting them to my FB account. I get good engagement on it not because people want me to "tell them about my character" but because they're interested in the system or like the background idea i threw together for a character)
Man, these D&D posts sure do get a lot of replies. ;)
ReplyDeleteQuiet, you! ;-)
DeleteUgh! The horror stories of the Monty Haul players! That stuff disgusts me. I get aggravated, because my 29th level wizard killed Odin & Thor fair and square.
ReplyDeleteI turned Valhalla into a time share….
I for one really value the campaign updates. All of us who are here are interested in the history of role-playing at the least, and the vast majority of us are also interested in the theory and practice of it.
ReplyDeleteLearning about your Old School-style campaigns is one of the best ways to see how one person in the movement turns that theory into their own particular practice. Keep them coming, please!
My game session summaries is a big part of the draw to my blog. No reason why yours wouldn't be the same.
ReplyDeleteSounds like he had fun. A bunch of us played in/experienced games like/approaching that in the 70s and 80s. I dont see any issue. I'd love to play in a game where I'm a demigod in something akin to the worlda of greek or norse mythos.
ReplyDeleteThe only issue is where people assume everyone plays that way/the same way or should/not.
Roger Moore published an article called the "Monty Hall Malady" in Dragon 82 where be bemoaned 1,000-level characters, etc. At the time I thought it was spot on.
ReplyDeleteLooking back, he was wrong. If people are having fun, who cares? Be a millionth level demigod if that floats your boat.
Honestly, what this kid was doing is more fun and interesting than the modern fixation on endless level 1-3 meatgrinder mudcore.
ReplyDelete