Saturday, February 15, 2025

Grognards & Gatekeepers

 As you can probably guess from my recent post about combat in Secrets of sha-Arthan, I've been re-reading RuneQuest and other Basic Role-Playing-derived games. Though I was never a regular player of RQ back in my youth, I came to admire it and its setting of Glorantha a great deal during their early 1990s renaissance. That admiration has not only remained to this day but has increased, thanks in no small part to the excellent work Chaosium has done in recent years to revitalize the game. Consequently, I've come to regret my one-time dismissal of RuneQuest as a product of too much Californian air and/or drugs. 

Over the course of the years I've delved into RuneQuest, one of the many things I've learned is that its fans, especially those who've been there since the '70s, have earned a reputation for being grumpy and unwelcoming to newcomers. Glorantha is such a rich fantasy setting, brimming with marvelous details and idiosyncrasies, that it's no wonder it's inspired a lot of devotion in its enthusiasts. At the same time, that detail can make it overwhelming, even intimidating, to those not fully initiated into its mysteries. Fear of being told that one is "doing it wrong" by old time Gloranthaphiles has no doubt been an obstacle to many a neophyte, though I don't believe I've ever directly experienced it myself.

RuneQuest fandom is hardly unique in this regard. The fandoms of two of my favorite settings, Traveller's Third Imperium and Empire of the Petal Throne's Tékumel, have both long had similar reputations as crotchety and inhospitable. For example, I remember well how, in the early days of the consumer Internet, I was very excited to join the Traveller Mailing List (or TML). The prospect of discussing Traveller with other fans across the globe seemed like a dream come true. Alas, one too many arguments over the plausibility of piracy in the Third Imperium, the use of near-C rocks as weapons, and Aslan footwear, among other topics, disabused me of that notion and I soon unsubscribed.

Of course, I was already a longtime fan of Traveller and the Third Imperium by the time I discovered the TML. Though I had no interest in the minutiae that tended to occupy its subscribers, I wasn't put off by the game entirely by their antics. I was already sold on the game and the Third Imperium, since, by this time, I was already a published author in the pages of GDW's Challenge and a member of the History of the Imperium Working Group (HIWG), a Traveller fan organization. Nevertheless, there were parts of Traveller's fandom, like the TML, that even I found a little off-putting and I would later learn that I was not alone in feeling this way.

And Tékumel – well, Tékumel fandom has always been filled with people so in love with its intricacies that they'd almost rather spend all their time and creativity talking about the setting instead of playing in it. I was fortunate, I suppose, that my own introduction to Tékumel in the early '90s was a welcoming one, because I can easily see how a newcomer might find its fans a cantankerous lot. Much like Glorantha and the Third Imperium, there's so much detail that it's exceedingly easy to get lost in it. Tékumel has the added wrinkle that it's a very niche setting, most of whose setting material has either been out of print for years or only available through publishers so small that it's effectively out of print. This lends Tékumel fandom a mystery cult quality to it that seems intended to scare off outsiders.

I thought about all of this recently, because I have a number of contacts within the RPG business and a regular topic of conversation among them is how to bring new players to games with complex settings and existing fanbases that reject any attempts to water down or otherwise alter them. It's a very real conundrum. All three of the games/settings I've mentioned have attempted to grapple with it to varying degrees. How successful they've been is a matter of debate. Of the three, I'd say Traveller is currently the one that's done the best job of it, thanks in part to the second Mongoose Publishing edition of the game. I have my issues with their version of the game, but it's pretty clear that Mongoose has done a good job of promoting and supporting Traveller for newcomers.

Previously, GDW had attempted to make a more accessible version of Traveller in the form of Traveller: The New Era (the subject of an upcoming Retrospective post), to very mixed success. Lots of old timers didn't like TNE and the way it thoroughly wrecked the Third Imperium setting – far more so than even MegaTraveller had – in the interests of wiping the slate clean for new players. The middling sales of TNE was not responsible for the demise of GDW, but many old Traveller hands often imply that it was. More recently, there's the Fourth Edition of Dungeons & Dragons, whose rules and overall approach deviated significantly from its predecessors in an effort to attract a new audience, with similarly middling results – and that's probably being kind. 

The fact is no one lives forever. The audience for many RPGs is aging and, if you're a game publisher, you need to have, if not an expanding customer base, at least not a declining one. That's why you need to find ways to make your games appealing to more than the existing fans. The problem is that many such efforts, while well intentioned, can tick off your existing fans to the point where they abandon your game forever. That's certainly what happened with me and D&D. I'd already jumped ship from Third Edition before Fourth was even announced, but, had 4e been more to my liking, I might well have returned to the game. Instead, I never looked back and, to this day, I haven't bought a single thing from Wizards of the Coast. 

Maybe it's because I'm old and crotchety myself, but I feel like older fans often get a bad rap. Yes, it's definitely true that we're set in our ways. Yes, it's true that we prefer that things never change or, if they do change, that they do so slowly and in accordance with previously established principles. Huge shifts unsettle us, as do repudiations or denigration of what came before. "This ain't your father's D&D!" or similar marketing campaigns are not going to endear your new edition to us. Neither will mocking or belittling the products of the past or those who created them. "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" is a good rule of thumb here.

Oldtimers, properly motivated, can be among a company's most dedicated evangelists, singing the praises of your roleplaying game to anyone who will listen. I was inculcated into the mysteries of Tékumel, for example, by several such oldtimers, who pointed me in the right direction and patiently answered my many, many questions about the setting. There's no reason that my experience shouldn't be universal. I love introducing people to Tékumel and Traveller, because doing so means I get more players for games and settings that I love. That's a win-win situation, as far as I'm concerned. 

However, not all oldtimers are like that and I'd argue that it's not always their fault. The trick is to find ways to include the grognards, to draw upon their experience and devotion to help promote the game to the next generation. That means reaching out to them and listening to their concerns rather than just casting them aside. No one likes to feel abandoned, especially by something or someone for whom you have a deep affection. The problem with grognards in my experience isn't that they're necessarily unwelcoming to newcomers; it's that they're rightly suspicious of attempts to chase a new audience at the expense of the existing one – and that seems completely reasonable to me.

29 comments:

  1. Have you looked at Six Seasons in Sartar as a way into playing and understanding Glorantha?

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    1. What is that? I don't believe I've ever heard of it.

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    2. It is a complete mini-campaign designed to introduce the basics of the setting and take the Player Characters through their initiation into adult and beyond. It limits choices to ease the process and build stories around.

      https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/313871/six-seasons-in-sartar?affiliate_id=392872

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    3. Full review here: https://rlyehreviews.blogspot.com/2020/05/jonstown-jottings-18-six-seasons-in.html

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    4. It's a critically acclaimed third-party campaign for RQG, which can be found on DTRPG here:

      https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/313871/six-seasons-in-sartar

      But it might be more useful to look at the author's blog, specifically here:

      https://andrewloganmontgomery.blogspot.com/2018/10/six-seasons-in-sartar-1-introducing.html

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  2. "Fear of being told that one is "doing it wrong" by old time Gloranthaphiles has no doubt been an obstacle to many a neophyte"

    This is why I've come to believe all pre-conceived campaign settings are detriments to gaming (including ported-in settings from fiction and film). Even one additional book the referee must read before starting the campaign results in fewer games. How much material exists for The Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Third Imperium? How will newcomers to the hobby EVER absorb all that material? Campaign settings are good for publishers because they sell books, but they don't promote participation in the hobby. Then there's the lore-lawyer problem you mention (i.e., players who grumble if you forgot to remember some nit picky detail from a minor novel published whenever).

    Homebrew was the original setting for most of these games and it remains the best ... "A castle in SOME kingdom, in SOME mountains, with SOME king has a problem ..., etc." That puts the focus on gaming, not on reading.

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    1. Oh, no people might have to put a modicum of effort into something. What an unbearable burden.

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    2. What I don't get is why anyone would feel they need to 'master' in some way a published/existing setting before using it. It genuinely doesn't compute to me. Just pick one spot that catches your-and-fellow-players' fancy and _go_, right?

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    3. Completely agree with Vasquez. For new players you need a quick start, not a homework assignment.

      And for all games, the DM should know more about the world than the players.

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    4. I agree with you mostly but the two big things I wanted to do in RPG was play in Middle Earth and Star Wars universes. While MERP doesn't really hit that spot well enough, WEG's D6 did.

      I do think that homebrew is best, but that games companies make a lot if money selling sourcebooks.

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    5. Starting off with a publish setting is a bit like a band playing covers songs; It’s good to do in the beginning but the real fun is coming up with your own ideas.

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    6. There are ways to get into some of these settings without having to drink from the firehose. An important bit is to decide to use those deep into the setting as a resource but not let them dictate your campaign.

      With that, I think I'm going to go back to my thought for entering Glorantha. Pick up RQ2 and Cults of Prax (available in PDF or print on demand). And then pick one RQ2 era campaign/adventure supplement to provide an initial situation.

      Delve into additional materials as you feel a desire or need.

      The latest starter set is a decent intro also, but I think it may set one on a path of having to absorb too much of the setting to go further.

      Or figure out how to play in my campaign (sorry, currently over subscribed...). I've been running RuneQuest and Glorantha since 1978, but you don't need a deep dive in the setting to play in my campaign. If you know stuff, cool, though be ready for me to contradict things. If you don't, that's totally fine too...

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    7. Oh, and I don't have the time or inclination to home brew a setting.... Every attempt with that I have done has been shallow and soon abandoned. But I can take someone else's setting and if it's got some freedom and wiggle room, I can make it my own without worrying about the canon police.

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  3. The dynamic you describe, of grognards and newbies and their reactions to change, can be easily solved by one easy trick: de-commercialize gaming. We've been educated into understanding ourselves as consumers, or as entrepreneurs, or both. Settings and rules alike are at root experienced as property, as possessions, by all parties. Like you mention, this has nothing to do with whether a given property is "niche" and "difficult" (= luxury goods, elitist market*) or wildly popular and market-dominant; it's coming out of the fabric of the hobby.

    Smash consumerism, all power to the imagination! ;)

    (* Even if, like with Tekumel, the depth of detail and complexity is a sort of three-card monte; the brand reputation and its defense matters more than material reality.)

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    1. Good point. A hobby becoming a business is what brought about so many of Gygax's troubles.

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    2. Every other hobby I have participated in seems to have multiple organizations, not owned by any company that sells goods related to the hobby, to hold training, events, meetings to discuss trends, etc. TaeKwonDo has several international ones. People who build or drive street rods have one in most US states. I guess there might be a few RPG cons that fit this description, but most seem to be for-profit companies of their own. Overall, it always kind of surprises me that we are just left with the decaying remains of the RPGA ("Adventurer's League") run by the largest company and only for promotion of their own current edition.

      Maybe it's because the different RPG systems split the market? (Pathfinder Society, Castles and Crusades Society, etc.) Maybe it's because RPG players were early web adopters who got their fix for this online? Maybe it exists but just offline and not where I've lived? I don't know.

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  4. Once upon a time I was in middleschool playing D&D Monty Haul and using the Deities and Demigods as a monster manual and a friend of my brothers said "your doing it wrong" and I realized he was right and we started over at the basics and everything was much, much better. So sometimes the 'doing it wrong' can be a worthwhile note.

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  5. Two comments: "fear of doing it wrong" doesn't just apply to established settings. In college we tried a fantasy game that was set in a specific time and place in medieval France. Unfortunately, that requires the players and gm to have a solid understanding not just of politics and religion of the time, but also economic and technological changes of the time. It was too much like homework, so we eventually abandoned the concept of trying to make it realistic.

    Another, valid concern for settings like Glorantha and Tekumel is that, after you start playing it, "official" material comes out and contradicts what the gm has already established. Imagine a sourcebook comes out that says that Gloranthan trolls behave like xyz and you have heretofore ruled they behave like abc. You either now have to reconcile that change, or ignore it, understanding that all future official material is going to written under the xyz lens.

    And, of course, there's continuity for games that have an established timeline. Players stop some war from happening in Traveller, only to see that future supplements are predicated on that war taking place. Or oops, accidently got Elrond killed during the events of The Hobbit, suddenly making the new Fellowship campaign significantly more difficult to run.

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    1. This is a great point. Historical settings are even worse. Unless you're a professor of that period of history or someone with a long-established passion for a particular era/culture/region, it's hard to get such a game off the ground.

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    2. I don't worry about contradictory material, though for a while I was reveling in "dead" settings, settings that had a bunch of stuff available, but were no longer in active development. But none of those really excited me.

      So now I'm using very live settings, but I just don't worry. I've been running Glorantha so long that I have my take, and treat the RQ2 era stuff as the most authoritative material, RQ3 with some authority, and if other material is useful, I use it. Really a lot can be used even if I have to ignore bits. I've been porting D&D modules to RQ and Glorantha for so long that the idea of replacing bits of back story that don't fit is second nature for me.

      But the same for historical periods I guess IS part of why my interest in historical period RPG play has diminished.

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  6. It has already been pointed out by other comments here that a lot of this friction comes from capitalist and consuming-focused desires of a constantly expanding market and endless growth, so I won't delve into that element.

    I will instead point out that "official" publishers and recognized stewards of settings are also not the people who have any real say in the dynamic you outlined. It is, and always has been, the hobbyists themselves. So it doesn't matter if a publisher wants new customers and an expanded market share, it matters if the established customers and fans want it. And a lot of nerds, grogs especially, tend to be averse to the kind of self-reflection required to simply go "no, I don't want new and other people to enjoy this thing I enjoy, I want to horde it for myself", even while their actions do exactly that.

    Conversely, newcomers should at least try and approach what comes before them with a modicum of respect and understanding, even if they do not agree with it.

    Dave Arneson started his own games and campaigns mostly because he was pushed away by the older wargaming grognards of his scene back in the day, due to being young and a newbie.

    Ultimately, it all comes down to people and group interactions. Because the off-putting minutia the Glorantha fandom often indulges in (and I have done so as well myself) is in many ways a social tool used to draw lines between an in group and an out group, even if nobody involved is willing to say that out loud. And that act ultimately has zero to do with Glorantha as a setting, as a shared space for imagination and hobbying and even less so as a commercial product.

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  7. For my part I hope to avoid that issue with my Majestic Fantasy Realms and Blackmash by releasing most of it as open content under the OGL or CC-BY.

    Sure as the original author folks will look to me as a source of authority on the setting but folks are free to make it their own as well. Sure there is a possibility that the result won't to my taste. But so far in the ten years I been doing this it has allowed Blackmarsh to reach corners of the hobby that I would not had the time or resources to deal with myself.

    For example this Spanish version of Blackmarsh doesn't just translate the text is also embeds it in an original setting of the author's own creation.

    https://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2020/08/blackmarsh-in-spanish.html

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    1. I can attest this is a great setting to run campaigns in, that Rob is responsive to questions, and there's plenty of room to do my own thing. I'm using it as a setting to run a campaign using Cold Iron, a 1980s college friend's RPG and as a basis to strive to publish my take on Cold Iron.

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  8. I’ve always wondered why companies don’t put out more setting-based fiction to acquaint people with their worlds. People get all the impression they need of Middle Earth from LOTR and can jump into a game set there with a mental image of what they expect. This approach worked pretty well for White Wolf and i know Fading Suns used some to good effect.
    GDW was pretty late to the party with a handful of novels in the New Era, although Marc Miller’s recent Agent of the Imperium is a decent introduction to Third Imperium. The Tekumel Foundation has taken years to (re)produce the Professor’s fiction books and has only put out the first two. AFAIK Glorantha has a decent amount of setting based fiction available.

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    1. The pendulum swinging too much in the novelist direction can be just as bad.

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  9. I don't get the apprehension at trying expansive settings. Do it "wrong." Do it your way. It's not Tekumel, it's MY Tekumel. Or Traveller. Or whatever. In the infinite planes there is room to entertain any idea! Even the "blasphemy" of non-canonical play. Steal the ideas you like, ditch the rest. Life's too short to do otherwise!

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    1. I agree entirely. The DM/GM is the final arbiter of what is canon at their table.

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  10. Was just contemplating this idea over the weekend - the "values" of gatekeeping and who's ends are being met (or not met). I think it is a *very* complicated issue for players and a clear issue for industry, particularly industry backed by "big business" thinking.

    We (players) benefit from a certain volume of other players - things need to be financially viable for industry to keep producing those things, we need other players to be able to play (particularly given player attrition), etc.

    But there is limited bandwidth for industry production, and a focus on bringing new butts to seats often means releasing simpler, easier to play or more basic games/materials to market. That seems to mean there would be less space, focus or design for more "complex" or "advanced" systems (of course complex /= good, but simple /= good either...).

    As someone upstream mentioned, investment of time and effort can be an example of "good" gatekeeping. Play time is hugely limited, and I am not opposed to a "price of admission" to consume some of that time. Gone are the days of being an evangelist for the industry because I just don't have the time.

    And the same applies to many other hobbies, I think - not just "smart kid" games. Tennis, golf, hiking, basketball...sometimes they are enjoyable with novices/inexperienced participants, but they are reduced in activity value and rely wholly on "hang out" value. If that's all you want, perfect, and RPGs can cycle right along with backyard BBQ, driveway hoops or whatever. But with limited play time left to me, I'd prefer the most immersive and engaging system with experienced (or at least invested) co-players to give me the best chance for a fulfilling experience.

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    1. "But there is limited bandwidth for industry production," except there isn't anymore. The capital costs have dropped to the point where we live in a post-scarcity economy for publishing.

      The biggest barriers are
      1) Labor i.e. how much time you are willing to spend writing, drawing, etc.
      2) Control of the IP i.e. whether you are allowed to write and share material for a particular setting.

      The result is an explosion of material for anything with open content. And the costs are low enough that a decent return can be had from an audience numbering in the hundreds. Whether that return in $$$, or something more intangible like engagement.

      But quality and integrity still matter, and what I see happening people voting with their feet and gravitating to those projects or products they feel have the best quality with an author they feel they can support.

      What this mean as far as the OP goes is that the only point of control one has for gatekeeping is control over the IP. Because that allows the owner to control what is allowed to be published or shared.

      Unfriendly fandom will collapse over time. For example, TML is no longer the go to place for discussions about Traveller and is a shadow of it once was. Mongoose and the Cepheus grew their own audience that ultimately became separate from the Traveller fandom of the 80s and 90s.



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