Wednesday, May 29, 2024

Retrospective: From the Ashes

At the end of last week's Retrospective on Greyhawk Wars, I promised I'd devote my next post in this series to taking a closer look at TSR's early 1990s attempt to reinvent Gary Gygax's World of Greyhawk setting for AD&D Second Edition. While Greyhawk Wars kicked off that reinvention by plunging the Flanaess into a fantastical "world war," the heavy lifting of teasing out just what that war actually meant for the venerable campaign milieu fell to another product, From the Ashes, released in 1992 and written by Carl Sargent. 

Like the 1983 revision of the original World of Greyhawk folio, From the Ashes comes in the form of a boxed set containing a pair of softcover books (both 96 pages in length this time) and an updated version of Darlene's incomparable maps. However, it also contains an additional map (depicting the regions around the City of Greyhawk), as well as new Monstrous Compendium sheets, and twenty cardstock reference sheets. All in all, it's impressively jam-packed in the way that TSR boxed sets almost always were during the late '80s and early '90s. Depending on one's preference, that's either a good thing or a bad thing – but we'll tackle that question soon enough.

The first of the two 96-page books is the Atlas of the Flanaess. This is largely a rewrite of material found in the 1983 boxed set, updated to take into account the consequences of the Greyhawk Wars on the setting. There's an overview of the setting's history, with an emphasis on recent events. Then, we're given looks at the peoples of the Flanaess, their lands, important geographical features, and the gods (or "powers," according to 2e's bowdlerized terminology) and their priesthoods. The Atlas also includes sections on "Places of Mystery" and "Tales of the Year of Peace." The first are unusual, often magical, locales that hold special interest to adventures, similar to those presented in the earlier Greyhawk Adventures. Meanwhile, the latter are adventure seeds for the Dungeon Master to flesh out.

The second 96-page book is the Campaign Book. This volume consists of entirely new information, focused primarily on the City of Greyhawk, its surrounding lands, and its important NPCs. During the Greyhawk Wars, the City suffered much damage. Now, it is being rebuilt and serves as neutral ground between all the previously warring kingdoms and factions. This turns the City into a Casablanca-esque den of espionage and intrigue, as well as a convenient home base for adventurers trying to make their way in this changed Flanaess. There is a ton of information here, providing the DM with lots of fodder for an ongoing campaign. I'd wager that the Campaign Book alone probably contains more new details about the World of Greyhawk setting than had been revealed in many years, perhaps ever.

And that is one of the aspects of From the Ashes that makes it controversial in some quarters – the detail. For many, the appeal of the World of Greyhawk has always been its sketchy, open-ended nature. The original folio was, at best, an outline of a setting, one each referee could use as a foundation on which to build his own version of Greyhawk. While the later boxed set included more details, most notably about the gods, it was still quite vague in its descriptions about many aspects of the setting. This aspect of the World of Greyhawk made it a good choice for DMs who weren't quite ready to create their own settings from whole cloth but who also still wanted lots of freedom to introduce his own ideas.

From the Ashes changed this aspect of the setting, bringing more in line with TSR's growing library of AD&D campaign settings, many of which came to be exhaustively detailed. This is precisely what started to happen with Greyhawk, too. Over the course of the next few years, From the Ashes was followed up by a number of lengthy expansion modules that filled in other parts of the Flanaess. In addition, some of these modules further advanced the unfolding "story" of From the Ashes in a way that was very much in keeping with the growing interest in "metaplot" that suffused RPGs during the 1990s, most famously in White Wolf's World of Darkness games, but by no means limited to them.

The second aspect of From Ashes that makes it controversial is its perceived changes to the tone of the Greyhawk setting. As originally presented, the World of Greyhawk had a tone that I can only describe as wargaming-meets-sword-and-sorcery. On the macro-level, it seems apparent to me that Gary Gygax liked the idea of a crazy quilt of rival nations, each jockeying for land, influence, and power – the perfect backdrop for a medieval wargames campaign of the sort that gave birth to Dungeons & Dragons in the first place. However, on the personal level, Greyhawk seems very much indebted to pulp fantasy of the Robert E. Howard and Fritz Leiber variety, as evidenced by his own forays into fiction writing.

The tone of From the Ashes and its expansions focused too much, I think, on the former at the expense of the latter. The battles of kingdoms and machinations of powerful NPCs overshadowed everything else. The Flanaess became their world; your player characters were just living in it. This is a problem that came to afflict the Forgotten Realms as well, much to the chagrin of its own creator. It was certainly a poor choice for Greyhawk, which, as I said, had long been more of a blank canvas on which the Dungeon Master could paint whatever he wanted while taking inspiration from the loose ideas Gygax provided. From the Ashes transformed the setting into a much more detailed place, driven by NPCs and Big Events dictated by TSR's desire to sell more product.

My own feelings about From the Ashes are decidedly mixed. I recognize and largely agree with many of the criticisms of the boxed set, especially regarding its introduction of a metaplot into Greyhawk, At the same time, Carl Sargent put a lot of solid work into this and many of the details he provided are eminently gameable, from small dungeons and adventure locales to interesting factions and conflicts. It's true that the Big Picture of the post-Wars setting takes precedence, but there's still some room for smaller, more personal scenarios and Sargent put effort into highlighting some of them. From the Ashes isn't, therefore, a complete disaster, but neither is it an unqualified success. Instead, it's a well-presented muddle and I think both positive and negative feelings toward are justified, depending on one's preferences. 

23 comments:

  1. If only there was some way to pick and choose what you use in a game and not be forced to use everything a published work presents.

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  2. Almost forty years down the road and I'm still bemused by the obsession with metaplot the RPG industry went through back then. You can't even really blame White Wolf for starting it, given that GDW was pushing hard in that direction with the Rebellion (the sourcebook for which dropped in 1988 after it had already been going a while). Battletech ramped their own metaplot up something fierce in the same era, and 1990's Torg was driven by the concept from word one, a good year before Vampire first dropped. WoD is just the most prominent example of a trend that was already going in the late 80s and spread like the plague in the next decade.

    For all that it seemed to be an infectious idea, I knew very few people who actually incorporated much metaplot into their own campaigns, and none that let it skew their games in directions they didn't like. There must have been many folks who bought in to this stuff wholesale but they're like platypuses to me. I believe they exist on the weight of the evidence but haven't ever encountered one, and they sure seem kind of weird to me.

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    1. I think there were three phenomena at work here.
      1) Industry-wide, I think there was the idea that people had to consume official plot material because that created a common language among players and (maybe most importantly) somehow affected tournament play. I know homebrew campaigns have always probably been the rule, but Gygax and TSR worked hard to create the idea that staying "official" made it easier for players to move from campaign to campaign. (In practice of course many people struggled to find one campaign, and most never played in a tournament.)
      2) People like soap operas. Look at how people responded to the rise of the continuing tv drama in the early 2000s, especially something like the Battlestar Galactica revival.
      3) Metaplot allows companies to maintain their revenue stream, especially when tied to rules revisions. Obviously people can take what they want and leave the rest, but many people want to minimize the heavily lifting.

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    2. @El Draque "Tournament play" for RPGs didn't exist outside of D&D. If tourney play was a factor at all it certainly wasn't an industry-wide one.

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  3. Always the RangerMay 29, 2024 at 7:23 AM

    "What has transpired since the valley was claimed many decades ago is simply a matter of conjecture...an expedition from Gran March never returned...mysterious groups sometimes journey in the direction of this place." Ideal campaign fodder (sparks for the imagination) as lifted from The Valley of the Mage in the World of Greyhawk folio, 1980. Although not perfect, that was damn good precisely because it was sparse on detail. Too much of what followed went in the other direction.

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  4. It's a known problem in fantasy worlds with metaplot that the stakes need to escalate until each new world-threatening villain and their attendant cataclysm is met with a yawn. Nowhere more so than in the AEG/Wizards stewardship of the Legend of the Five Rings storyline, which saw the ravaged world of Rokugan go through eight or so world-shaking disasters, almost on a par with the pummelling taken by Marvel's Manhattan.

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  5. Like a great many things, I blame Star Wars. The original trilogy inspired generations, and you walked out of the movies desperately wanting to know more about this stray character or that colorful world...

    Fast forward to today and now you know ever single thing about everyone, from their imperial social security number to their favorite flavor of blue ice cream, and you never want to go to a galaxy far, far away again.

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  6. FTA, had it been published for any other setting, would be lauded as one of rhe best supplements ever by TSR. I like the fresh take, as well as Gary's original. I've run both versions several times over the decades (and of course when the folio first was published, we were all excited as hell for that)

    What FTA does that the folio and gold box do not, is take care of a lot of the heavy lifting for DMs to run adventures in GH. It's full of hooks/scenario ideas/set ups and details about what is/what could be going on "right now" in the setting. IOW-geared towards play at the table and less towards lore/history and stats about how many pikeman/footmen/whatevs there are in a given area (completely useless and a waste of space, afaic)

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  7. As much of a World of Greyhawk nerd I am, for some reason I passed on this when it was out. I'm not quite sure why. The only thing might be it was released in 1992 and I was in the navy then. Though I was in San Diego, maybe the local game store didn't have it? not sure.

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  8. All of the above makes me wonder if they're doing a reboot with what Greyhawk they're including in the new DMG.

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    1. There's a lot of speculation about what their plans are and nothing really revealed yet AFAIK. One big question is when in the timeline (or beyond it) 5e GH will be set, and no one can say for sure.

      My (snarky and absurd) theory is that the "new Greyhawk" will be narrowly focused on the Sundered Empire region, and this is all part of a cunning(?) scheme to re-launch the 1999 Chainmail miniatures range. If WotC hadn't demonstrated borderline insanity several times in the last couple of years that would clearly be impossible, but these days who knows what demented brainstorm they'll have? I'd never stop laughing it it actually happened. :)

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  9. I completely understand why this set wouldn’t be everybody’s cup of tea. Especially if your introduction to the hobby and Greyhawk came much earlier than 1992. This is a departure from the Folio and the Gold Box and the vague casual mentions Greyhawk received in many of the early modules. But for me, my introduction to the hobby came in 1990, making me a child of AD&D 2E. For me all the classic Greyhawk source materials were just old products from a previous edition, that with only a few exceptions I wouldn’t actively pursue obtaining and consuming until late in the 3.5 era.

    From reading things like the Wargames West catalog, getting the occasional mention of Greyhawk in Dragon Magazine, and even the odd TSR supplement bringing it up, I knew pretty early on that Greyhawk was a thing, but I wasn’t overly impressed at first. In retrospect I can see it came down to me coming into the hobby past the initial glory days of Greyhawk, I had no context to be impressed with the setting. The Greyhawk Adventures hardback, which was likely the very first specifically Greyhawk product I purchased did little to explain to the uninitiated what Greyhawk was, so unfairly or not, I initially found Greyhawk to be quite silly. It didn’t help that I started out as a Dragonlance fanboy (likely due to the novels), and fairly quickly transitioned into a Forgotten Realms fanboy (a combination of the novels and the shear amount of continually releasing product).

    Then sometime in 1993 or maybe early 94 I purchased From the Ashes, probably on a whim. I’m guessing no other AD&D product in whatever bookstore I was at looked interesting to me that day. When I started reading it, I almost immediately began to appreciate the Greyhawk setting. It is not a stretch to say this set was my Gold Box. Reading the history of the Flanaess, and the atlas entries (which while a bit more detailed than the earlier folio/box set, were still pretty darn vague) gave me the missing context to understand why there were all these nations that weren’t kingdoms, with many of them named almost the same thing. Basically, in its pages I found a logical (at least logical enough) reason for all the things my younger self had thought were silly about Greyhawk. Over the years of future Greyhawk products, coupled with my eventual back filling of past Greyhawk products, I really came to regard the setting with a great deal of fondness. Of all the TSR campaign settings it is likely the one I’m most nostalgic about.

    At least partially as a function of when I joined the hobby, I’ve got complex thoughts on metaplots in game materials. I’m certainly used to them, and don’t hate them, and if I’m looking at a supplement or setting only as a thing to scavenge ideas from, I even appreciate them somewhat. But when it comes to a campaign setting I’m actively running a game in, I’ve been burned by them. Even all these years later I’m still bitter about my favorite megacorp being written out of Shadowrun in the transition from SR3 to SR4. It makes me appreciate Columbia Games continued commitment to not advancing the Harn timeline.

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  10. I don't remember ever seeing this product on the shelves of where I bought gaming stuff though by 1992 I was playing more Battletech and the odd game of 40K because that's what my friends liked.

    However it does sound interesting and I always found Carl Sargent take on adventures and White Dwarf articles to be interesting.

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  11. I was never a Greyhawk aficionado back in the day, either before or after the Wars shakeup. But having read through this both boxed set and the original Greyhawk Adventures book a few years back, I think that From the Ashes is a really solid campaign setting supplement… But it’s not a good Greyhawk supplement.

    Change all the place names, redraw the map, and rename all the NPCs, and you’ve got… well not necessarily gold, but probably silver.

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  12. It’s the bane of most popular settings: be it the creator’s love and continuing work (Tekumel), or a corporate plan (Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms), or years of fan input turned canon (Glorantha), the more well-defined the place becomes, the more the magic departs. Room for imagination evaporates and a GM treads lightly, lest he or she violate canon.
    Heck, I do it to myself in my own homebrew settings and end-up creating a new one, one where even I’m not sure what lies down the dusty frontier path.

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  13. Carl Sargent's writing, both here; in the additional GH supplements; and elsewhere, inspired one of my little writing reminders: put a hook in every paragraph. (You don't have to hit it 100%, but seriously - the number of people that drone on without providing gameable material is huge.)

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    1. Exactly. Sad that he disappeared from the RPG scene.

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  14. The whole concept always felt a bit mean-spirited to me, lustfully destroying the contribution of Big Daddy Gygax after he had been cast out. Were any other TSR D&D setting treated the same way? (No opinion on the quality per se of the products. Never got into them.)

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    1. Here's the thing, though - you had to know the backstory to think that, and I didn't. I thought it was the logical progression of the setting and pretty cool. Gygax was out by the time I started in D&D, and I didn't see it as "destroying" the setting at all. Frankly, I still dont.

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    2. As mentioned I never played them, but titles like "From the Ashes" seemed suggestive enough. I seem to recall the old lineup of Gygax characters got pruned too as part of the new 'metastory'. Come to think of it, wasn't this the era with the joke release of Castle Greyhawk too?

      I see that Greyhawk Online summarizes it as "TSR made a meaningful shift in the World of Greyhawk™ in 1991. The Greyhawk Wars are the in-game catalyst used to allow TSR game developers, principally Carl Sargent, to take the setting in a new direction. ... The tone of Sargent's post-Wars material was intentionally darker and more grim than pre-Wars TSR publications. These changes generated mixed reactions from fans of the setting, failed to sufficiently revive sales and led to TSR's cancellation of the product line in late 1993."

      ..

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    3. Castle Greyhawk was earlier. FtA had its own line of supplements, which were also quite good (all Carl Sargent's work).

      Other settings did get changes. They didn't all get changed the same way, but none of them were static settings. And From The Ashes signifies a rebirth from the Greyhawk Wars.

      A fair number of people gripe about FtA. They gripe TSR didn't "do anything" with Greyhawk, and they gripe that TSR did something with Greyhawk. Usually the same person griping. Gygax wasn't at TSR. He wasn't writing new material for it. End of story. GH was a good candidate to revive and try something different; make it stand out from the Forgotten Realms, which was going strong at that point. A more adult and mature setting. Obviously it didn't catch on.

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    4. Yes, I see that WG7 Castle Greyhawk was published in 1988 (post-Gygax) and then they tried to walk that effort back a few years later.

      "A fair number of people gripe about FtA. They gripe TSR didn't "do anything" with Greyhawk, and they gripe that TSR did something with Greyhawk. Usually the same person griping."

      I can see the point: (1) WG could have been developed further post-Gygax (2) without smashing up the setting. This is hardly a paradox. But it was apparently too tempting not to.

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